Blog Banter 32: Non-Consensual Combat Restrictions
"A quick view of the Eve Online forums can always find someone complaining about being suicide ganked, whining about some scam they fell for or other such tears. With the Goons' Ice Interdiction claiming a vast amount of mining ships, there were calls for an "opt out of PvP" option.
Should this happen? Should people be able to opt-out of PvP in Eve Online. Should CONCORD prevent crime rather than just handing out justice after the event? Or do the hi-sec population already have too much protection from the scum and villainy that inhabits the game?"
In the last few months, with the Goons ganking hi-sec miners to control the price of Oxygen Isotopes, there has been some players calling for an "opt out of PvP" option in Eve Online.
Also this week there has been a long full-bodied whine thread on the forums where a hi-sec carebear sold his fitted and rigged Domi for 95,000 ISK instead of the 95,000,000 he wanted. It was the old "buyer opens trade window with 95,000,000, seller see's it and whilst he's still finding the ship to drag and drop the buyer changes it to 95,000 and the seller doesn't notice" trick. Calls were being made for scammers like this to be banned.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you "get" Eve Online. Maybe World of Warcraft might be better for you? Better still, how about Hello Kitty Online?
Before I get comments like "I've been playing Eve since 1943 and I "get" Eve but I don't want PvP/to get scammed..... rar rar rar rar" let me explain.
Eve is a harsh, dark game-world. It was designed that way. It's been developed that way. We love it that way. The only place you are truly safe in Eve is inside a station.... for now. It's the Wild West of space, you are not suppose to be safe anywhere. Read the back story, read the chronicles, read the scientific articles, read the novels. They all point to Eve being a cross between the outer worlds of Star Wars (retched hives of scum and villainy) and Firefly/Serenity. The gleaming, polished, happy, helpful and smiley United Federation of Planets it is not!
Technically there is already an "opt-out of PvP" box, it's called the log in screen!
Of course in hi-sec you are afford some "protection" by CONCORD. However, you need to remember CONCORD is the space police, and like our own police on Earth at this time, they cannot prevent every crime from taking place. They are there to punish offenders, not always to prevent the crime from taking place (other than through the threat of punishment).
Mugger - Give me your wallet or I'll stab you!
Businessman - You cannot mug me, I'm in the city near the Police station. This area is high security.
Mugger - Eh? What are you talking about?
Businessman - I'm a manager not a criminal. Therefore as a "real-life carebear" and not a PvP'r (person vs person) I've "opted out" of being a victim of crime.
Mugger - /stab
Businessman - I'm petitioning you for that!
Mugger - /stab /stab
Businessman - Oooo you are so going to get banned /dies
Now don't get me wrong, Eve Online needs carebears. Without them the game would collapse. We need miners and missioners repossessing loot to provide minerals. We need people building ships, modules and ammo. We need people undertaking research and creating T2 items. But that doesn't mean you can destory the "realism" of the game. Yes, realism is subjective in a space simulation set 20,000 years in the future where we travel around in spaceships faster than the speed of light using our brain implants. But how would you work "invulnerable carebears" into the story-line? Also if carebears never died there would be a no call for mining barges, exhumer's and battleships and ammo used in level 4 missions. Carebears also supply carebears you know!
Scamming:-
Scamming is easy to avoid. JUST USE YOUR BRAIN AND THINK!
98.25% of sales posted in local chat are scams.
98.5% of people convo'ing you to offer you a great deal are scams.
98.75% of received Eve Mails telling of mega offers are scams.
99% of "get rich schemes" like TitanRuzFTW are scams.
The reality is that the market hubs are so active if you wanted to sell an item at a really, really, really great price then you could just stick it on the market and it would be gone in minutes. Some guy selling minerals for an uber amazing price? Check the instant buy orders on the market, why doesn't he just sell to them and make more cash. It's all about common sense! Unfortunately greed often overrides common sense.
Never, ever, ever, use the direct trade window. Always use contracts. And read things carefully. If you rush things to take advantage of this amazing deal you will miss the fact that it isn't an amazing deal and you're being scammed! If an offer sounds too good to be true.... THEN IT IS A SCAM!
I got burnt once as a noob and bought a shuttle for 8,888,888 ISK. But I didn't call for the guy to be banned, I called him something else in my head and moved on. It was my own fault as I didn't look properly.
Suicide Ganking:-
Now, onto suicide ganking. There are things you can do to reduce your chance of being suicide ganked. First off, don't try to mine ice in Gallente space when the Goons have publicly announced that they are suicide ganking every ice miner they see in Gallente space!
Secondly, run-of-the-mill suicide ganking is usually about economics, if you're not worth the gank, then you'll probably not get ganked.
Lets take the example of an 73bn ISK Officer-fit Nightmare for level 4 missioning. First off..... WHY????? Yes I'm sure your 73bn pointy ship rips through hi-sec level 4's like a hot knife through butter. But, how many level 4's do you need to do to repay the original 73bn outlay to buy the ship? The guy in a T2 fit Navy Issue BS or Marauder has spent 72bn less than you and does the same missions fairly fast. Just calculate how long it would take you to catch up and overtake his earnings when you start 72bn down.
But most importantly, his 1bn ship and fit is probably not a lot of interest to suicide gankers, especailly if he's mostly T2 fit with only a few faction mods. However that Nightmare you are in is what suicide gankers dream of. A few, lets say 5, T1 PvP heavy alpha fit BS will take it down (after all it's fit for PvE isn't it). Of course they'll lose their own cheap BS to CONCORD, but the alt in the industrial will be fine as he scoops up all your expensive mods as you look on from your pod and cry. Even if only 21bn ISK of mods drop from that dead Nightmare, it's still 21bn ISK for an outlay of probably under 1bn! 20 billion ISK profit makes it VERY worthwhile in this case. Apparently the new T3's are great for suicide ganking and with Tornado's giving a 13,000+ alpha they make ideal suicide ganking ships!
You thinking the above is bollocks? Read it andweep laugh your ass off - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8975336
For the next example of avoiding suicide ganking we have the NPC Militia high-sec missioner. However with this example there is no suicide involved. Unlike faction war missioners that are in the militia and brave low-sec, these stay in high-sec in expensive fit battleships and cry "I'm quitting and going back to WoW" (yes one actually said that!) when you blow them up. Now these guys I have ZERO sympathy for. They have joined the NPC militia corp as it has 0% tax. Now for someone who is grinding high-sec level 4's that sounds ideal. Zero tax and still in an NPC corp so you cannot be war dec'd by high-sec griefers. Profit, profit, profit!
There is a reason the tax is set at 0%, it's because you have a permanent war dec ongoing with the militia of two opposing Empires. So when the likes of Loren Gallen*, aka Chuck Norris aka "The Militia Tax Man", collects your faction and officer loot from your wreck don't start crying. Yes the Navy Police are there but they can be effectively tanked with the right setup. They are not going to protect you if the other person knows what they are doing. To avoid being ganked like this you should..... actually I'm not going to tell you. If you are doing this then you deserve to be blown up. If you join the militia then fight, don't carebear!
Summary:-
Eve Online could be called a futuristic space simulation. There is nowhere totally safe in Eve Online just as there is no where totally safe on Earth. So when carebearing in hi-sec please remember, it is "high security space", it is NOT "safe space".
There is enough protection in high-sec already IF you engage brain first!
"A quick view of the Eve Online forums can always find someone complaining about being suicide ganked, whining about some scam they fell for or other such tears. With the Goons' Ice Interdiction claiming a vast amount of mining ships, there were calls for an "opt out of PvP" option.
Should this happen? Should people be able to opt-out of PvP in Eve Online. Should CONCORD prevent crime rather than just handing out justice after the event? Or do the hi-sec population already have too much protection from the scum and villainy that inhabits the game?"
In the last few months, with the Goons ganking hi-sec miners to control the price of Oxygen Isotopes, there has been some players calling for an "opt out of PvP" option in Eve Online.
Also this week there has been a long full-bodied whine thread on the forums where a hi-sec carebear sold his fitted and rigged Domi for 95,000 ISK instead of the 95,000,000 he wanted. It was the old "buyer opens trade window with 95,000,000, seller see's it and whilst he's still finding the ship to drag and drop the buyer changes it to 95,000 and the seller doesn't notice" trick. Calls were being made for scammers like this to be banned.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you "get" Eve Online. Maybe World of Warcraft might be better for you? Better still, how about Hello Kitty Online?
Before I get comments like "I've been playing Eve since 1943 and I "get" Eve but I don't want PvP/to get scammed..... rar rar rar rar" let me explain.
Eve is a harsh, dark game-world. It was designed that way. It's been developed that way. We love it that way. The only place you are truly safe in Eve is inside a station.... for now. It's the Wild West of space, you are not suppose to be safe anywhere. Read the back story, read the chronicles, read the scientific articles, read the novels. They all point to Eve being a cross between the outer worlds of Star Wars (retched hives of scum and villainy) and Firefly/Serenity. The gleaming, polished, happy, helpful and smiley United Federation of Planets it is not!
Technically there is already an "opt-out of PvP" box, it's called the log in screen!
Of course in hi-sec you are afford some "protection" by CONCORD. However, you need to remember CONCORD is the space police, and like our own police on Earth at this time, they cannot prevent every crime from taking place. They are there to punish offenders, not always to prevent the crime from taking place (other than through the threat of punishment).
Mugger - Give me your wallet or I'll stab you!
Businessman - You cannot mug me, I'm in the city near the Police station. This area is high security.
Mugger - Eh? What are you talking about?
Businessman - I'm a manager not a criminal. Therefore as a "real-life carebear" and not a PvP'r (person vs person) I've "opted out" of being a victim of crime.
Mugger - /stab
Businessman - I'm petitioning you for that!
Mugger - /stab /stab
Businessman - Oooo you are so going to get banned /dies
Now don't get me wrong, Eve Online needs carebears. Without them the game would collapse. We need miners and missioners repossessing loot to provide minerals. We need people building ships, modules and ammo. We need people undertaking research and creating T2 items. But that doesn't mean you can destory the "realism" of the game. Yes, realism is subjective in a space simulation set 20,000 years in the future where we travel around in spaceships faster than the speed of light using our brain implants. But how would you work "invulnerable carebears" into the story-line? Also if carebears never died there would be a no call for mining barges, exhumer's and battleships and ammo used in level 4 missions. Carebears also supply carebears you know!
Scamming:-
Scamming is easy to avoid. JUST USE YOUR BRAIN AND THINK!
98.25% of sales posted in local chat are scams.
98.5% of people convo'ing you to offer you a great deal are scams.
98.75% of received Eve Mails telling of mega offers are scams.
99% of "get rich schemes" like TitanRuzFTW are scams.
The reality is that the market hubs are so active if you wanted to sell an item at a really, really, really great price then you could just stick it on the market and it would be gone in minutes. Some guy selling minerals for an uber amazing price? Check the instant buy orders on the market, why doesn't he just sell to them and make more cash. It's all about common sense! Unfortunately greed often overrides common sense.
Never, ever, ever, use the direct trade window. Always use contracts. And read things carefully. If you rush things to take advantage of this amazing deal you will miss the fact that it isn't an amazing deal and you're being scammed! If an offer sounds too good to be true.... THEN IT IS A SCAM!
I got burnt once as a noob and bought a shuttle for 8,888,888 ISK. But I didn't call for the guy to be banned, I called him something else in my head and moved on. It was my own fault as I didn't look properly.
Suicide Ganking:-
Now, onto suicide ganking. There are things you can do to reduce your chance of being suicide ganked. First off, don't try to mine ice in Gallente space when the Goons have publicly announced that they are suicide ganking every ice miner they see in Gallente space!
Secondly, run-of-the-mill suicide ganking is usually about economics, if you're not worth the gank, then you'll probably not get ganked.
Lets take the example of an 73bn ISK Officer-fit Nightmare for level 4 missioning. First off..... WHY????? Yes I'm sure your 73bn pointy ship rips through hi-sec level 4's like a hot knife through butter. But, how many level 4's do you need to do to repay the original 73bn outlay to buy the ship? The guy in a T2 fit Navy Issue BS or Marauder has spent 72bn less than you and does the same missions fairly fast. Just calculate how long it would take you to catch up and overtake his earnings when you start 72bn down.
But most importantly, his 1bn ship and fit is probably not a lot of interest to suicide gankers, especailly if he's mostly T2 fit with only a few faction mods. However that Nightmare you are in is what suicide gankers dream of. A few, lets say 5, T1 PvP heavy alpha fit BS will take it down (after all it's fit for PvE isn't it). Of course they'll lose their own cheap BS to CONCORD, but the alt in the industrial will be fine as he scoops up all your expensive mods as you look on from your pod and cry. Even if only 21bn ISK of mods drop from that dead Nightmare, it's still 21bn ISK for an outlay of probably under 1bn! 20 billion ISK profit makes it VERY worthwhile in this case. Apparently the new T3's are great for suicide ganking and with Tornado's giving a 13,000+ alpha they make ideal suicide ganking ships!
You thinking the above is bollocks? Read it and
For the next example of avoiding suicide ganking we have the NPC Militia high-sec missioner. However with this example there is no suicide involved. Unlike faction war missioners that are in the militia and brave low-sec, these stay in high-sec in expensive fit battleships and cry "I'm quitting and going back to WoW" (yes one actually said that!) when you blow them up. Now these guys I have ZERO sympathy for. They have joined the NPC militia corp as it has 0% tax. Now for someone who is grinding high-sec level 4's that sounds ideal. Zero tax and still in an NPC corp so you cannot be war dec'd by high-sec griefers. Profit, profit, profit!
There is a reason the tax is set at 0%, it's because you have a permanent war dec ongoing with the militia of two opposing Empires. So when the likes of Loren Gallen*, aka Chuck Norris aka "The Militia Tax Man", collects your faction and officer loot from your wreck don't start crying. Yes the Navy Police are there but they can be effectively tanked with the right setup. They are not going to protect you if the other person knows what they are doing. To avoid being ganked like this you should..... actually I'm not going to tell you. If you are doing this then you deserve to be blown up. If you join the militia then fight, don't carebear!
Summary:-
Eve Online could be called a futuristic space simulation. There is nowhere totally safe in Eve Online just as there is no where totally safe on Earth. So when carebearing in hi-sec please remember, it is "high security space", it is NOT "safe space".
There is enough protection in high-sec already IF you engage brain first!
*Regular readers may wonder why I mention my corp mate Loren Gallen so often in blogs. Easy to answer, a great deal of people search the internet for him. Probably something like "who the hell is loren gallen and how did he kill me in hi-sec" before they Google "world of warcraft account reactivation". Anyway, he brings me traffic!
Other Banters on this round:-
Other Banters on this round:-
- Blog Banter 32 by Corelin @ Haberdashers Run Amok
- EVE Online is Harsh - Live With It by Drackarn @ Sand, Cider and Spaceships
- Blog Banter 32 by Cle Demaari @ A Citizen in EVE
- Safe? by blastradius1 @ Blastrad Tales
- Consensual PvP? by Ned "CCP Manifest" Coker @ A Gaming Manifest
- Blog Banter 32 by evehermit @ Evehermit's Blog
- EVE is all about risk by TG3 @ Through Newb Eyes
- Blog Banter 32 by Harrigan Vonstudly @ Gun Turret Diplomacy
- Blog Banter 32 by Lukas Rox @ Torchwood Archives
- Blog Banter something or other and an update by TetraEtc @ Tetra's EVE Blog
- Life's not consensual by Logan Fyreite @ Eve Opportunist
- Without PvP, EVE will be nothing by Keyanu @ Muppetninjas
- Blog Banter 32 by A Scientist's Life in EVE
- Say Yes To Reasonable Protection by Kirith Kodachi @ Inner Sanctum of the Ninveah
- Your Ship is Out of Control by Rixx Javix @ EVEOGANDA
- Blog Banter 32 by Kaeda Maxwell
- What Makes EvE Real? by Kuan Yida @ Random Posts From Auga
- See No Evil by Azual Skoll @ The Altruist
- The Sandbox Argument by Seismic Stan @ Freebooted
- Blog Banter 32 by Marc Scaurus @ Malefactor
- Non-Consensual Combat Restrictions - Pass by Mabrick @ Mabrick's Mumblings
- A Load of Crap by GamerChick42
- For the Children by Sered @ Sered's Lives
- Against Your Will by Truen1ght @ ...Shall we not Revenge
- BB: Option 3 by Mike Azariah @ A Missioneer in EVE
- Who Are You.. Really? by Orakkus @ 2nd Anomaly From the Left
- Get Your Tears Out of My Beer by Kat Robspierre @ Chasing ISK
- I heart carebears by Shalee Lianne @ Living a Lie
Undock button = pvp consent button. Simples!
ReplyDeleteLoren Gallen sells! :P
ReplyDeleteHaha, I love the mugger/businessman skit. Faking a blog banter for the morsel of comedy genius was totally worth it ;).
ReplyDeleteA semi-carebear's thoughts on this...
ReplyDeletehttp://chasingisk.blogspot.com/2012/01/get-your-tears-out-of-my-beer-yc114.html