Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Farmers Gonna Farm - NO!

Haters gonna hate and farmers gonna farm.

Come on CCP, lets have some action on these plex farmers that are hurting faction war. This week I managed to decloak several farmers inside a plex only to have they warp off (so the favoured cloak plus triple stabbed). I've lost count of those who are stabbed and just warp away. This is as close as a passive source of income as you can get in Eve currently. Come on! Lets swing the nerf hammer!

1. Plex timers roll back at 2x speed when nobody is there.
Flee out of the plex when you see someone on D-Scan? Well your hard work is being undone! I'm tempted to say 4x or even 8x. If you won't fight for your plex, you should not get any LP!

2. Cloaks do not work in plex'.
The 'button' targets them as they enter. Same effect as if a militia member enters enemy hi-sec. If, as a militia member, you try to cloak in enemy hi-sec you get the message - "You cannot use your cloaking device as the enemy Navy are tracking you". Have this inside faction war plex but rather than the navy, it is the satellite that is tracking you!

3. Increase PG requirement for warp core stabs limiting offensive and defensive power.
Even triple stabbed with cloak, most ships can kill the rat and get the LP. Increasing PG is going to hurt the DPS buy limiting turrets and launchers or tank.

4. You need to have the button locked for it to countdown
A favourite trick of the farmer is to position their ship just inside 30km from the button on the far side from the warp in. They then are 40km or so away from the enemy ships that warp in. Plenty of time for a leisurely align and warp out. If they have to target the button to get it to countdown, the stabs and cloaks gimping their lock range will mean they need to get closer to the button and therefore closer the warp in. No sitting 29.9km far side of the capture point! The RP reason for this is that your crew are hacking the systems on the satellite and need the lock to gain the connection.

5. The plex icon in space changes when someone is running the timer.
Enter a system, one war target in there and that small outpost has an icon above it meaning he's in there. KILL HIM! In fact why not have the plex timer showing on the outside? If it is running you not only know someone is in there (and which side they are on depending if its going up or down) but also how much time you have left to do something about it!

OK all, lets have a sing-song!

Stabbed through the hull,
And you're too lame,
You give Faction War a bad name.

A shootable target is what you sell,
You promise me pewpew, then put me through Hell,
Chains of rage got a hold on me,
When fitted with stabs, you can break free.

Oh, I've a loaded gun, yeah.
Oh, there's nowhere to run.
No one can save you.
The cockbaggin' will be done.

Stabbed through the hull,
And you're too lame,
You give Faction War a bad name (bad name)

I play my part and you play your game
You give faction war a bad name (bad name)
You give faction war, a bad name

Painted and pointed I have you now
But you're triple stabbed and I say "wow!"
A militia pilots dream, you act so shy
Your very first warp-in was your first goodbye

Oh, I've a loaded gun
Oh, there's nowhere to run
No one can save you
The cockbaggin' will be done. 

Stabbed through the hull,
And you're too lame
You give Faction War a bad name (bad name)

I play my part and you play your game
You give Faction War a bad name (bad name)
You give faction war, oh!

[Guitar Solo]

Stabbed through the hull,
And you're too lame
You give Faction War a bad name
I play my part and you play your game
You give Faction War a bad name (bad name)


  1. I think everyone can agree that something has to change.
    I agree on the rollback and i think 2x speed is the right amount. I think cloaks should be allowed they provide offensive options (recon hidden in the plex) and even if they are annoying it's at least logical to use cloaks in a war for surprise attacks.
    But stabs should simply be forbidden in a plex. Deserters are shot in a war so why the hell should you allow stabs inside a plex. There is also no legit tactical use of stabs other than running away.

  2. You missed one obvious one: The timer stops counting down if you cloak. RP reason: The cloak shuts down any electronic signaling that would give the ship away, so your crew can't hack the tower.

    1. The counter does stop if you cloak. But they sit spamming D-Scan and activate it when you are on short scan.

  3. I agree farming sucks, but I disagree with most of your solutions.

    1) I agree with, though I may leave it at 1x speed

    2) I disagree with this completely. There are legitimate tactical reasons for a cloak in a plex outside of farmers and eliminating them is bad. In fact I got ambushed by a rapier I didn't know was in a plex just the other day.

    3)I would take this a step further and say warp stabs don't work in a plex. Natural phenomenon don't allow you to warp to someone, they also disable your stabs. Raising pg may have the bad effect of messing up some industrial fits that are already tight on power.

    4)I don't like this one either, mainly because I see myself sending my first few shots at the outpost and not the enemy.

    5)I like the first idea about changing the icon if someone is in the plex, I don't like visible timers. I think visible timers would exacerbate the problem as farmers would jump in just before timers hit zero

  4. I will support 1). I wouldn't support 2, as I agree that there are tactical reasons to cloak.

    3) I like the idea that if they can ban warping, that stabs won't work. How about this: you need to take an acceleration gate out of the pocket, other forms of warp don't work.

    4) I'm good with having to target

    5) I'm ok with the icon change, but not with visible timers.

  5. The problem with most 'solutions' like these is that they address the symptoms, not the problem. It's like cutting heads off the hydra. Incentives should be made to encourage desired behavior instead of restrictions on undesired actions.

    For example, there's absolutely no reason to disallow warp core stabs inside a plex. For example, the plexer may want to travel in more safety and not get caught as easily on a gatecamp. So they fit a stab or two. And when they get to their plexing system, they can't just dock and refit because the system is owned by the opposing faction.

    There was only one incentive you suggested that would encourage people to not use warp core stabs. Namely, roll back the timer while the plexer isn't inside. I honestly think a 2x rollback isn't enough. 3-4x sounds better. Or even just a simple reset to 0. But that's debatable. Regardless of the speed factor, a timer rollback either forces you to stay, fight, and defend your plex or give up.

    The other (big) problem with encouraging people to fight to defend plexes is the system of payouts. Plexes are a solo activity because nobody wants to wait for the same amount of time with someone else for a fraction of the payout. That runs at odds to the advantage numbers provide in PvP encounters necessary to defend the plex. This is the reason that although having a handful of arty thrashers sitting 15km from the beacon in a small plex would be fantastically defensible, nobody does it (at least while plexing). The obvious way to solve this incongruity would be to implements some sort of pay scaling, similar to how incursion sites work. A rough idea of one such equation might be:

    L = P*x / (N+x-1)

    L = loyalty point payout per pilot
    P = base loyalty point payout for the plex
    N = number of pilots in the plex upon completion
    x = some number that scales to adjust the payout to encourage a particular fleet size. A good example would be to base it on the capture time of the plex, so smaller plexes only pay out well to fewer pilots, but larger plexes pay out the same ratio when more pilots are involved. For example, 3 for a novice, 5 for a small, 8 for a medium, 12 for a large.

  6. Dude, love the Bon Jovi parody! I'm also Gallente FW hanging around Eranakko and i've seen loads of stabbed Merlins too!

  7. I'm a Gal mil pilot like yourself. I don't fit stabs or cloaks and fight extensively in the WZ. My issue with your, and most, "solutions" to the farming problem comes down to favoring veteran players almost exclusively, even if unintentionally. There are legitimate reasons not to fight for a plex. If I'm sitting in a blaster Incursus and a pirate shows up in what I know is (because I've fought the pilot) an armor, double web hookbill. I'm not going to fight him. It's suicide. So now the timer rolls back at 4 or 8(?) x speed (per your "solution"). He's not even a FW pilot, just a guy looking to pad his KB. Putting the timers up makes the problem even worse as many of the pies in the WZ will just wait until a timer is low and then run you out for lolz. I'm up for a compromise of say a 1x roll back to discourage true farming where you never intend to fight, but otherwise, there's no point in running anything BUT faction or pirate frigs (and being experienced enough to utilize them) and just running people who might otherwise fight out of plexes in order to control defensive plexing. Newer players can't afford to throw away Comets/Hookbills/Firetails/Slicers/Dramiels, etc. And that's before we add in the new jump clone skills where more experienced pilots can have access to even more clones with high end implants and hardwiring to further increase their advantage over newbs for each ship combo they want. Want to stop the farmers? Do what I do and run their plex timers down. They'll leave the system when they realize you're serious about contesting a system instead of just trying to get an easy kill. Boring? Yes. Do it enough though, and you'll get a rep that makes farmers leave system within minutes of seeing you in local and on d-scan.

    As for stabs and cloaks...cloaks, as stated above, have a legitimate use in plexes (cloaky arazu in a medium works wonders against farmers). Stabs, yeah, disable them inside the plex as they do have legit uses outside of combat ships and shouldn't have their fitting requirements changed for one issue in one section of the game.

    Finally, make any non-FW pilot a suspect inside a plex when they enter. Tired of tanking my sec status to kill high-sec weekend warriors looking for a fight. You may enjoy being -10, but I prefer to be able to travel freely without having to dodge high sec systems. Plus it's fun to chase squids into Ichoriya =)