Wednesday, July 8, 2015

Heavy Missiles Vs Interceptors?

I was wondering what the effect the new missile enhancers and launchers may have on heavy missiles. Heavies already have their own "precision" T2 variant. Would these new modules make heavies viable against fast tackle? Just to quickly cover the mechanics...

When a missile explodes on your ship the server does a few calculations to see how much of that lovely damage you take.

Explosive Radius vs Signature Radius.
Each missile has an explosive radius. Think of it as a disk that contains all the damage. Your ship has a signature radius. Think of that as a disk. If the explosive radius of the missile is 100 metres and your ship has a signature radius of 100m of larger then you'll take all the damage. If your ship is smaller then it'll only take a proportion of the damage. Remember this is an area based calculation, good old Pi 'r' squared. If your ship has a signature radius half of the incomings missile explosive radius you won't take half the damage, you'll only take a quarter.

Explosive Velocity vs Ship Speed
Each missile has an explosive velocity. If your ship is going slower than that you'll take full damage. If you are going faster, you'll take proportionally less.

These two factors mean that big, heavy and slow missiles do less damage to small fast ships. The new missile enhancers and computers allow you to do more. Lets see how much more, just concentrating on explosive radius for now.

Raven with Rapid Heavy Launchers:-

Raven - No Enhancers
Faction Heavies - Speed 6450m/s, Exp Radius 105m, Exp Vel 121.5m/sec. Range 66km
Fury - Speed 6450m/s, Exp Radius 180m, Exp Vel 102m/sec. Range 49km
Precision - Speed 6450m/s, Exp Radius 93m, Exp Vel 145.5m/sec. Range 33km (A)

Raven - 2 Unscripted Computers and 2 Enhancers
Faction Heavies - Speed 7534m/s, Exp Radius 86m, Exp Vel 146m/sec. Range 90km
Fury - Speed 7534m/s, Exp Radius 149m, Exp Vel 122m/sec. Range 68km
Precision - Speed 7534m/s, Exp Radius 77m, Exp Vel 174m/sec. Range 45km (B)

Raven - 2 Precision Scripted Computers and 2 Enhancers
Faction Heavies - Speed 7193m/s, Exp Radius 74m, Exp Vel 165m/sec. Range 82km
Fury - Speed 7193m/s, Exp Radius 127m, Exp Vel 138m/sec. Range 62km
Precision - Speed 7193m/s, Exp Radius 66m, Exp Vel 198m/sec. Range 41km (C)

I've made a bad infographic using the three Ravens firing Precision Heavies. The fiery ball is the full 670 DPS. The inner circle is a Stilletto. The area that circle covers represents the damage it will take as a proportion of the total damage. Case A shows lots of wasted damage, case C not so much even though that is still 670 DPS, just more intense!

Let's see how this works in practical numbers. Say you are in the first Raven and you get tackled by a Stiletto. You were firing Fury heavy missiles. These have a 180m explosive radius vs the Stilettos 40m. From a quick calculation that Stilletto will take 4.9% of the 900 DPS if its sat still. I hope you have some fast drones as 40 DPS is going to be a problem.

Now lets swap those Fury missiles for some precision heavy missiles, explosive radius of 93m). First off you are going to lose DPS. Down from 900 to 670. However the Explosive Radius of these different missiles is nearly half at 93m. Less damage, but in a more compact 'ball'. That's better, that pesky Interceptor is now taking 18.5% of the DPS. Whilst the DPS of the missiles is lower, the smaller explosive radius means you deal 125 DPS to that Stiletto.

Let us now say you have a mobile depot. You deploy that and refit. You just so happen to have in your cargo hold two missile computers and two missile Enhancers. He's now taking 27% of the damage or 181 DPS with your new fit.

Finally lets script both those two missile computers with precision scripts. He's now taking 37% of your damage. Not great but you've gone from 44 DPS with Rage Heavy Missiles (and no missile enhancers or computers) to 248 DPS.

Now that's only if he's being an idiot and sitting still as this doesn't take into other factors. If he's moving fast the explosive velocity versus the target ships speed will.... well that's for another day!


  1. You forgot that depot anchor time and refit time would be far enough for a gang T arrive at your ass. You described a theoretical raven tackled by stiletto while the most common scenario is a typhoon vs stiletto.
    Both these bs are fitted with rapid heavies but phoon has better maneuverability and application bonus. Raven rof bonus is heavily diminished by 2 ballistic controls.
    90% of time flying a rapid bs you've got faction ammo loaded in because its a most well-rounded choose in terms of dps, its projection and applying. Stiletto's friends wont give you that 40s to reload precision infernos and 40 more seconds to shoot away the ceptor.

    As for tacking stiletto - if you're pointed then align-mjd-warp away. If it scrambles you - heavy neut her to death, kill her within 10-15 seconds. If a stiletto pilot got nos+small acs to shoot your drones - consider yourself lucky - you've won the lottery and met a good ceptor pilot.
    In all cases mentioned mjd, heavy neut, scram, web and light drones (both warriors and ecm) are much more useful than rocket "tracking comps".
    The only fits which really benefit from them are armor fit fleet phoon and old cta tengu. Both are rarely flown in solo thus have little T no problems with ceptors.
    P.s. The real shit starts when you're tackled by a dual prop dramiel or succubus.

    o7 Pashko Morgan from his typhoon/rattle seat

    P.s. You did forgot crash booster. It's essential.

  2. It has been a general topic of discussion in Sugar's chat channel, (pushed by people more experienced than me), that the new missile modules have created more problems than they solved. Stacking penalties on formerly non-stacking rigs have majorly increased the amount of slots needed to apply well.

    I'm basically unacquainted with missile ships, but I recognise that using 5 slots from a 15 slot ship for application is going to leave you almost tankless. If this was CCP's aim, I guess they've executed it well.

    If CCP really wanted to make missiles apply well, and be useful beyond light missiles and *perhaps* citadel torpedos, they'd not give with one hand, and take with the other.

    As for boosters, should they *really* be a compulsory item? CCP should really take a look at how much links and boosters twist the meta. Hopefully they'd nerf the second, and remove the first.

    Rob K.